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	<title>Comments on: A conspiracy theory cooked in the hot pot</title>
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		<title>By: Ljósmynd DE</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8878</link>
		<dc:creator>Ljósmynd DE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8878</guid>
		<description>&lt;cite&gt;The loan book might stir up any furor but in legal terms it’s nothing. &lt;/cite&gt;

Yes, all the more this kind of documents should be disclosed to the Icelandic public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>The loan book might stir up any furor but in legal terms it’s nothing. </cite></p>
<p>Yes, all the more this kind of documents should be disclosed to the Icelandic public.</p>
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		<title>By: Bromley86</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8865</link>
		<dc:creator>Bromley86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt;The main task of this investigation - to trace and get back stolen money. They didn’t disappear.

One of the first things that Eva said before she was formally engaged was that the money will, for the most part, never be recovered.  Although the investigation will easily recover enough to pay for itself, the main thrust was to ensure that the social contract in Iceland was not shattered.  Or something like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;The main task of this investigation &#8211; to trace and get back stolen money. They didn’t disappear.</p>
<p>One of the first things that Eva said before she was formally engaged was that the money will, for the most part, never be recovered.  Although the investigation will easily recover enough to pay for itself, the main thrust was to ensure that the social contract in Iceland was not shattered.  Or something like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander E.</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8860</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>oops, forgot the main thing! 

The main task of this investigation - to trace and get back stolen money. They didn&#039;t disappear. And for sure - they are stolen.
And all this rush with Icesave (imho) is just an attempt to bury the process of retrieving the stolen money and close the case. So they guys can keep their money and all others pays for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops, forgot the main thing! </p>
<p>The main task of this investigation &#8211; to trace and get back stolen money. They didn&#8217;t disappear. And for sure &#8211; they are stolen.<br />
And all this rush with Icesave (imho) is just an attempt to bury the process of retrieving the stolen money and close the case. So they guys can keep their money and all others pays for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander E.</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8859</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8859</guid>
		<description>&quot; If a document like the Kaupthing loan book has the power to stir up such a furor, then the whole society is prone to wild speculations, discontent and unrest about things not yet revealed&quot;
Ljosmynd DE.
The loan book might stir up any furor but in legal terms it&#039;s nothing. For investigation purposes (and later - for the court) it&#039;s important who made all decisions, who ordered them, what exact law or rule were broken etc.  And all this must be proved by facts. And no matter how many people are engaged in investigation - their number is limited anyway. 
The problem is - the whole financial system mess is unprecedented. Not in absolute  numbers (ten of billions of dollars are just a fraction of what &quot;vaporized&quot; in US or UK) but in relative to the nation&#039;s size. Can you imagine that ALL financial institutions in USA have to be &quot;bailed out&quot;? But this is is what happened in Iceland.
And investigation is also unprecedented  in this respect as it involves ALL very powefull people and institutions of Iceland.
Like if in the US someone has to investigate ex-president, most members of the Congress and the Senat, Treasury, Government and all guys from Wall Street! 
So first of all - for any progress - there MUST be a political will to do that. 
So far I don&#039;t see it among Icelandic political &quot;elite&quot; ... And I doubt I will.

PS. This doesn&#039;t mean the matter is hopeless. But it must be done in unprecedent way as well ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; If a document like the Kaupthing loan book has the power to stir up such a furor, then the whole society is prone to wild speculations, discontent and unrest about things not yet revealed&#8221;<br />
Ljosmynd DE.<br />
The loan book might stir up any furor but in legal terms it&#8217;s nothing. For investigation purposes (and later &#8211; for the court) it&#8217;s important who made all decisions, who ordered them, what exact law or rule were broken etc.  And all this must be proved by facts. And no matter how many people are engaged in investigation &#8211; their number is limited anyway.<br />
The problem is &#8211; the whole financial system mess is unprecedented. Not in absolute  numbers (ten of billions of dollars are just a fraction of what &#8220;vaporized&#8221; in US or UK) but in relative to the nation&#8217;s size. Can you imagine that ALL financial institutions in USA have to be &#8220;bailed out&#8221;? But this is is what happened in Iceland.<br />
And investigation is also unprecedented  in this respect as it involves ALL very powefull people and institutions of Iceland.<br />
Like if in the US someone has to investigate ex-president, most members of the Congress and the Senat, Treasury, Government and all guys from Wall Street!<br />
So first of all &#8211; for any progress &#8211; there MUST be a political will to do that.<br />
So far I don&#8217;t see it among Icelandic political &#8220;elite&#8221; &#8230; And I doubt I will.</p>
<p>PS. This doesn&#8217;t mean the matter is hopeless. But it must be done in unprecedent way as well <img src='http://icelandweatherreport.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ljósmynd DE</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8854</link>
		<dc:creator>Ljósmynd DE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8854</guid>
		<description>@Alexander E. 

&lt;cite&gt;Investigation is just a part of process. Also it’s not that simple and quick as you might think - rather few people have to search through tens of thousands of documents to find out traces of EVIDENCES. &lt;/cite&gt;

I would expect this whole investigation process to be anything but quick and simple. Eva Joly herself has complained repeatedly about the investigation team being understaffed.

But I think, it is essential to keep the Icelandic public informed. They can&#039;t just wait for several years until some judge may finally have acknowledged some evidence. If a document like the Kaupthing loan book has the power to stir up such a furor, then the whole society is prone to wild speculations, discontent and unrest about things not yet revealed. So, I would consider the bank secrecy laws concerning the old banks of lower priority than the public interest in proper information - like about some Landsbanki or Glitnir loan book, which should have been found by now. 

And of course, a law offering a reduced sentence for serving as witness in a trial should be an option to speed things up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Alexander E. </p>
<p><cite>Investigation is just a part of process. Also it’s not that simple and quick as you might think &#8211; rather few people have to search through tens of thousands of documents to find out traces of EVIDENCES. </cite></p>
<p>I would expect this whole investigation process to be anything but quick and simple. Eva Joly herself has complained repeatedly about the investigation team being understaffed.</p>
<p>But I think, it is essential to keep the Icelandic public informed. They can&#8217;t just wait for several years until some judge may finally have acknowledged some evidence. If a document like the Kaupthing loan book has the power to stir up such a furor, then the whole society is prone to wild speculations, discontent and unrest about things not yet revealed. So, I would consider the bank secrecy laws concerning the old banks of lower priority than the public interest in proper information &#8211; like about some Landsbanki or Glitnir loan book, which should have been found by now. </p>
<p>And of course, a law offering a reduced sentence for serving as witness in a trial should be an option to speed things up.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander E.</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8842</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8842</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; Ljósmynd DE :

    Asked in your interview with Eva Joly about how long the investigation should take, she predicted a five-year time frame. ...
... And according to her, bank secrecy laws are not an issue, so, why does it take so long? By now it should have been time enough to turn every computer upside down to find compromising documents like the Kaupthing loan book at Landsbankinn and Glitnir, too. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ljósmynd DE.
Most likely Eva Joly was talking about the length of proper legal procedures i.e. court decisions. Investigation is just a part of process. Also it&#039;s not that simple and quick as you might think - rather few people have to search through tens of thousands of documents to find out traces of EVIDENCES. Then they have to collect these evidences - in proper legal manner again etc.
So there are two &quot;express&quot; methods.

One - the guys plead guilty and hand over stolen money.
Two - we hire some people who (for a fraction of cost) would make such an offer to the guys mentioned above that impossible to reject (unless you want to see yourself in a nice coffin).

But probability of these two express methods are next to zero. So several years  is realistic time. And optimistic as well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> Ljósmynd DE :</p>
<p>    Asked in your interview with Eva Joly about how long the investigation should take, she predicted a five-year time frame. &#8230;<br />
&#8230; And according to her, bank secrecy laws are not an issue, so, why does it take so long? By now it should have been time enough to turn every computer upside down to find compromising documents like the Kaupthing loan book at Landsbankinn and Glitnir, too. </p></blockquote>
<p>Ljósmynd DE.<br />
Most likely Eva Joly was talking about the length of proper legal procedures i.e. court decisions. Investigation is just a part of process. Also it&#8217;s not that simple and quick as you might think &#8211; rather few people have to search through tens of thousands of documents to find out traces of EVIDENCES. Then they have to collect these evidences &#8211; in proper legal manner again etc.<br />
So there are two &#8220;express&#8221; methods.</p>
<p>One &#8211; the guys plead guilty and hand over stolen money.<br />
Two &#8211; we hire some people who (for a fraction of cost) would make such an offer to the guys mentioned above that impossible to reject (unless you want to see yourself in a nice coffin).</p>
<p>But probability of these two express methods are next to zero. So several years  is realistic time. And optimistic as well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: alda</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8822</link>
		<dc:creator>alda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8822</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments, everyone.

Fred/Scott - I don&#039;t know the answer to your question, but my hunch is that Bromley is right. 

As to your question of whether foreigners can own bank assets - it was revealed recently that foreign creditors of both Glitnir and Kaupthing will get major stakes in the banks [if not acquire them in their entirety]. So obviously the answer to that is yes.

There is major debate now, though, over whether foreigner can own Iceland&#039;s resources. Like I said, I don&#039;t exactly know where the law stands at present, but there are loud demands for legislation to be passed that would ban this - because there are precisely those fears now. That foreign creditors can come in and demand our resources if all those foreign debts cannot be repaid. Hence the big debate over sovereignty, Icesave, the EU, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments, everyone.</p>
<p>Fred/Scott &#8211; I don&#8217;t know the answer to your question, but my hunch is that Bromley is right. </p>
<p>As to your question of whether foreigners can own bank assets &#8211; it was revealed recently that foreign creditors of both Glitnir and Kaupthing will get major stakes in the banks [if not acquire them in their entirety]. So obviously the answer to that is yes.</p>
<p>There is major debate now, though, over whether foreigner can own Iceland&#8217;s resources. Like I said, I don&#8217;t exactly know where the law stands at present, but there are loud demands for legislation to be passed that would ban this &#8211; because there are precisely those fears now. That foreign creditors can come in and demand our resources if all those foreign debts cannot be repaid. Hence the big debate over sovereignty, Icesave, the EU, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Bromley86</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8821</link>
		<dc:creator>Bromley86</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8821</guid>
		<description>Fred &amp; Scott.

This is old information, but I think the general principle still applies:

&quot;Fishing in the Icelandic economic zone is reserved for Icelandic nationals and only Icelandic registered vessels may be used. For joint stock companies wishing to engage in fishing, at least half the capital has to be owned by nationals of Iceland, the company domiciled in Iceland, the directors must be Icelandic nationals and at least half the board of directors must live in Iceland.&quot;
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/38/60/2349594.pdf

Of course, I assume that the banks count as Icelandic nationals, so there&#039;s no problem there.  If repossed though, the quota rights can effectively only be sold on to Icelanders.

Of course, income streams that would otherwise have been Icelandic will now be diverted off outside of Iceland.  But that&#039;s the result of not paying back money that&#039;s effectively been syphoned off (i.e. when those income strams were Icelandic, they weren&#039;t being used in a way that benefited the people of Iceland).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred &amp; Scott.</p>
<p>This is old information, but I think the general principle still applies:</p>
<p>&#8220;Fishing in the Icelandic economic zone is reserved for Icelandic nationals and only Icelandic registered vessels may be used. For joint stock companies wishing to engage in fishing, at least half the capital has to be owned by nationals of Iceland, the company domiciled in Iceland, the directors must be Icelandic nationals and at least half the board of directors must live in Iceland.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/38/60/2349594.pdf"  rel="nofollow">http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/38/60/2349594.pdf</a></p>
<p>Of course, I assume that the banks count as Icelandic nationals, so there&#8217;s no problem there.  If repossed though, the quota rights can effectively only be sold on to Icelanders.</p>
<p>Of course, income streams that would otherwise have been Icelandic will now be diverted off outside of Iceland.  But that&#8217;s the result of not paying back money that&#8217;s effectively been syphoned off (i.e. when those income strams were Icelandic, they weren&#8217;t being used in a way that benefited the people of Iceland).</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8820</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8820</guid>
		<description>I´d REALLY like to know the answer to Fred´s question. And if the government (bank owner) winds up with quotas that were securities on defaulted loans, is it going to just give them away for free to connected people, or could it be the start of a public auction system to recover some money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I´d REALLY like to know the answer to Fred´s question. And if the government (bank owner) winds up with quotas that were securities on defaulted loans, is it going to just give them away for free to connected people, or could it be the start of a public auction system to recover some money.</p>
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		<title>By: Ljósmynd DE</title>
		<link>http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08/a-conspiracy-theory-cooked-in-the-hot-pot.html/comment-page-1#comment-8819</link>
		<dc:creator>Ljósmynd DE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=2482#comment-8819</guid>
		<description>Asked in your interview with Eva Joly about how long the investigation should take, she predicted a five-year time frame. It might look like she won&#039;t have so much time. I think, some tangible result of the investigation must be presented much sooner. And according to her, bank secrecy laws are not an issue, so, why does it take so long? By now it should have been time enough to turn every computer upside down to find compromising documents like the Kaupthing loan book at Landsbankinn and Glitnir, too. 

Whichever government is going to rule, without a proper investigation there will be social discontent. And all politicians, who have their dirty laundry hidden somewhere, must always fear being blackmailed. That&#039;s anything but a promising new beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asked in your interview with Eva Joly about how long the investigation should take, she predicted a five-year time frame. It might look like she won&#8217;t have so much time. I think, some tangible result of the investigation must be presented much sooner. And according to her, bank secrecy laws are not an issue, so, why does it take so long? By now it should have been time enough to turn every computer upside down to find compromising documents like the Kaupthing loan book at Landsbankinn and Glitnir, too. </p>
<p>Whichever government is going to rule, without a proper investigation there will be social discontent. And all politicians, who have their dirty laundry hidden somewhere, must always fear being blackmailed. That&#8217;s anything but a promising new beginning.</p>
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