Comments on: What happens if Icesave is rejected? http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html Thu, 17 May 2012 15:30:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Alexander E. http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12631 Alexander E. Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:05:24 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12631 <blockquote>Bromley86 January 19, 2010 at 11:02 am Alexander. His CV, in case you’re interested: http://notendur.hi.is/gylfason/pdf/cv46.pdf</blockquote> Thanks, Bromley. Even worse than I expected :-( A person who has never ever worked in real economy... explaining now where money comes from :))))

Bromley86 January 19, 2010 at 11:02 am

Alexander. His CV, in case you’re interested:
http://notendur.hi.is/gylfason/pdf/cv46.pdf

Thanks, Bromley.
Even worse than I expected :-(
A person who has never ever worked in real economy… explaining now where money comes from :) )))

]]> By: Kris http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12628 Kris Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:26:03 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12628 current framework of the international finance: extortion racketeering corruption gambling violence How could anyone possibly resist! current framework of the international finance:
extortion
racketeering
corruption
gambling
violence
How could anyone possibly resist!

]]> By: Gwrhyr http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12627 Gwrhyr Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:18:57 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12627 From an article written in 2004 about Haiti that I'm reading now that made me go "WOW": "There once were many millions for Haiti from the World Bank, but the bank says the money bought almost nothing, and it says it will exercise ''extreme caution'' before it resumes trying to help Haiti." "The fundamental barrier to development in Haiti, and the reason so much international aid has failed, the World Bank says, has been two centuries of terrible government controlled by ''a small elite'' that always monopolized money and power, and ''often used force to control the country.'' Talk of a small elite that monopolized money and power reminds me a bit of the IP and the talk of the Icelandic octopus. I don't think things in Iceland will become like Haiti - but I think there are striking parallels in the way an elite can exist in a country side by side with the people it screws over. The IP must not be allowed to rewrite history or control opinion in Iceland. There must be more democracy movements and more political diversity to ensure that Iceland's elite doesn't Haitify the country. From an article written in 2004 about Haiti that I’m reading now that made me go “WOW”:
“There once were many millions for Haiti from the World Bank, but the bank says the money bought almost nothing, and it says it will exercise ”extreme caution” before it resumes trying to help Haiti.”
“The fundamental barrier to development in Haiti, and the reason so much international aid has failed, the World Bank says, has been two centuries of terrible government controlled by ”a small elite” that always monopolized money and power, and ”often used force to control the country.”

Talk of a small elite that monopolized money and power reminds me a bit of the IP and the talk of the Icelandic octopus. I don’t think things in Iceland will become like Haiti – but I think there are striking parallels in the way an elite can exist in a country side by side with the people it screws over. The IP must not be allowed to rewrite history or control opinion in Iceland. There must be more democracy movements and more political diversity to ensure that Iceland’s elite doesn’t Haitify the country.

]]> By: Gwrhyr http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12626 Gwrhyr Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:11:43 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12626 Just look at Haiti. The world already DOES let countries descend into ruin - if the people of the country let their leaders screw them over. If Iceland does not get the whole financial collapse figured out, written out in the history books, and justice served, then it will descend into the same situation as Haiti has been for several decades. That's what Eva Joly means when she talks about the social contract. That's why it's so important to solve issues like Icesave and to make sure those responsible for the crisis are prosecuted. Just look at Haiti. The world already DOES let countries descend into ruin – if the people of the country let their leaders screw them over. If Iceland does not get the whole financial collapse figured out, written out in the history books, and justice served, then it will descend into the same situation as Haiti has been for several decades. That’s what Eva Joly means when she talks about the social contract. That’s why it’s so important to solve issues like Icesave and to make sure those responsible for the crisis are prosecuted.

]]> By: Bromley86 http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12621 Bromley86 Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:02:09 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12621 Alexander. His CV, in case you're interested: http://notendur.hi.is/gylfason/pdf/cv46.pdf Andrew <cite>The Dutch and UK governments will come back to the negotiations because it is not in their interests to have Iceland default on the debt </cite> Although true, the counter is that when the negotiations finish, the UK/NL get their money with interest from Oct 2008. Iceland's economy however will likely not receive the funds it needs in a timely manner until the time that it signs into law. Sylvia <cite>This is what makes the argument really difficult. Even with Darling’s payout, many of them have lost substantial savings.</cite> Not the case, AFAIK. Even if Iceland extended the 100% guarantee to all Icesave depositors (before anyone gets excited, this could simply never happen as it would lead to immediate sovereign default), that would not include the only British individuals who have not had all their savings returned (i.e. the IoM KE people and the Guernsey Landsbanki people). Of course, there are some retail onshore depositors in the NL that have lost out, but that's a different matter. Alexander. His CV, in case you’re interested:
http://notendur.hi.is/gylfason/pdf/cv46.pdf

Andrew
The Dutch and UK governments will come back to the negotiations because it is not in their interests to have Iceland default on the debt
Although true, the counter is that when the negotiations finish, the UK/NL get their money with interest from Oct 2008. Iceland’s economy however will likely not receive the funds it needs in a timely manner until the time that it signs into law.

Sylvia
This is what makes the argument really difficult. Even with Darling’s payout, many of them have lost substantial savings.
Not the case, AFAIK. Even if Iceland extended the 100% guarantee to all Icesave depositors (before anyone gets excited, this could simply never happen as it would lead to immediate sovereign default), that would not include the only British individuals who have not had all their savings returned (i.e. the IoM KE people and the Guernsey Landsbanki people).

Of course, there are some retail onshore depositors in the NL that have lost out, but that’s a different matter.

]]> By: John http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12620 John Tue, 19 Jan 2010 06:53:55 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12620 To Flygill your posting is interesting to read and the same goes to Bromley86. A comment to geo8ge your posting :my I ask if you mean it seriously comments like " But the transition was painful, and even deadly, for a large number of individuals." so on and so forth. A comment to ADA "rescind their promise to lend money" - I would understand as terms(conditions) for lending Iceland money (obligations Iceland has to meet). Rescind their promise - is victimizing Iceland(or can be understood as such ?) even if I understand that the position of the "victim" is a strong one(for getting "justice" and sympathy ) I am not sure that the facts of the case merit it. ( But my understanding of English might be lacking (as I am not a translator)). I am not even sure that looking upon oneself as a victim is gone help in the situation Iceland finds itself. But it might accurately describe the emotions of standing alone( that might be your intention?) To Flygill your posting is interesting to read and the same goes to Bromley86. A comment to geo8ge your posting :my I ask if you mean it seriously comments like ” But the transition was painful, and even deadly, for a large number of individuals.” so on and so forth.
A comment to ADA “rescind their promise to lend money” – I would understand as terms(conditions) for lending Iceland money (obligations Iceland has to meet). Rescind their promise – is victimizing Iceland(or can be understood as such ?) even if I understand that the position of the “victim” is a strong one(for getting “justice” and sympathy ) I am not sure that the facts of the case merit it. ( But my understanding of English might be lacking (as I am not a translator)). I am not even sure that looking upon oneself as a victim is gone help in the situation Iceland finds itself. But it might accurately describe the emotions of standing alone( that might be your intention?)

]]> By: Eric Swanson http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12616 Eric Swanson Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:58:24 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12616 I fear that the IMF and conservatives in Western countries who do not like social democracy would like to see Iceland be forced to dismantle the welfare state. Of course, it is unfair to force the entire Icelandic population to pay for the misdeeds of probably less than ten bankers. Ironically, we see a growing trend in capitalistic countries to "socialize" private business risk while keeping profits "private" and information about enormous executive salaries and benefits "confidential." I fear that the IMF and conservatives in Western countries who do not like social democracy would like to see Iceland be forced to dismantle the welfare state. Of course, it is unfair to force the entire Icelandic population to pay for the misdeeds of probably less than ten bankers. Ironically, we see a growing trend in capitalistic countries to “socialize” private business risk while keeping profits “private” and information about enormous executive salaries and benefits “confidential.”

]]> By: Chris Cook http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12615 Chris Cook Tue, 19 Jan 2010 01:50:25 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12615 Here's a solution dating back to the 1750's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consols Step One Consolidate all of Iceland's debt into one Pool. Step Two Divide the Pool into proportional UNDATED Units eg billionths, redeemable by Iceland at any time. Step Three Set a reasonable %age dividend on Units, possibly index-linked. Step Four Issue Units to debt holders in exchange for debt. Outcomes 1/ Iceland - is free of debt, and may reduce their financing costs at any time through buying back Units. 2/Investors - have a valuable income-bearing asset of Icelandic Equity, which they may keep or sell, assisted by the fact that there is one single pool of liquidity. The absence of debt makes it more likely that Iceland can pay the dividend: this in turn lowers the risk, and increases the value of Units. Here’s a solution dating back to the 1750′s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consols

Step One
Consolidate all of Iceland’s debt into one Pool.

Step Two
Divide the Pool into proportional UNDATED Units eg billionths, redeemable by Iceland at any time.

Step Three
Set a reasonable %age dividend on Units, possibly index-linked.

Step Four
Issue Units to debt holders in exchange for debt.

Outcomes
1/ Iceland – is free of debt, and may reduce their financing costs at any time through buying back Units.

2/Investors – have a valuable income-bearing asset of Icelandic Equity, which they may keep or sell, assisted by the fact that there is one single pool of liquidity.

The absence of debt makes it more likely that Iceland can pay the dividend: this in turn lowers the risk, and increases the value of Units.

]]> By: Bob Beck http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12613 Bob Beck Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:50:57 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12613 Isn't it true that the amount of liability of iceland and its taxpayers is a question of law and fact for a court? GB and NL bring a suit and the matter is resolved. The Icesave "deal" seems like an extrajudicial shakedown. If prperty rights are such a big deal a fair court will sort it out. No treaty. No vote. No rush. Bob Isn’t it true that the amount of liability of iceland and its taxpayers is a question of law and fact for a court? GB and NL bring a suit and the matter is resolved. The Icesave “deal” seems like an extrajudicial shakedown. If prperty rights are such a big deal a fair court will sort it out. No treaty. No vote. No rush.

Bob

]]> By: sylvia hikins http://icelandweatherreport.com/2010/01/what-happens-if-icesave-rejected.html/comment-page-1#comment-12612 sylvia hikins Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:14:10 +0000 http://icelandweatherreport.com/?p=3277#comment-12612 Katie- your analysis on the per capita debt for UK and Netherlands of 31 euros omits that in the UK the national debt is now £178 billion and still rising, mainly due to the banking collapse and global meltdown. There will be huge cuts in UK budgets over the next few years and unemployment at just under 2 million, has not yet peaked. I think that the interest rate you are being levied is unjustified and unfair but I suspect I hold a minority view here. IceSave was a branch of Landisbank, so the Internet depositors (not part of the financial elite, but by and large small savers) it is argued,should be treated the same as the Icelandic depositors. This is what makes the argument really difficult. Even with Darling's payout, many of them have lost substantial savings. Michael: I'm not sure that an incoming Conservative Government would treat the Icesave issue differently. I think the leverage and pressure is best put on now. The Tories are arguing for austerity measures to reduce the debt in the UK. sylvia from viking wirral Katie- your analysis on the per capita debt for UK and Netherlands of 31 euros omits that in the UK the national debt is now £178 billion and still rising, mainly due to the banking collapse and global meltdown. There will be huge cuts in UK budgets over the next few years and unemployment at just under 2 million, has not yet peaked. I think that the interest rate you are being levied is unjustified and unfair but I suspect I hold a minority view here. IceSave was a branch of Landisbank, so the Internet depositors (not part of the financial elite, but by and large small savers) it is argued,should be treated the same as the Icelandic depositors. This is what makes the argument really difficult. Even with Darling’s payout, many of them have lost substantial savings.
Michael: I’m not sure that an incoming Conservative Government would treat the Icesave issue differently. I think the leverage and pressure is best put on now. The Tories are arguing for austerity measures to reduce the debt in the UK.
sylvia from viking wirral

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